Read all the latest news from Brendan O'Connor MP
Read all the latest news from Brendan O'Connor MP
PATRICIA KARVELAS: Brendan O'Connor is the Shadow Minister for Employment and Industry and Small and Family Businesses, and he joins me now from quarantine in Canberra ahead of the next sitting fortnight. I'm sure it's joyful to be in quarantine, Brendan O'Connor, welcome. Unemployment rose in July, but not by as much as we were actually expecting. What do you put that down to?
BRENDAN O'CONNOR, SHADOW MINISTER FOR EMPLOYMENT, & INDUSTRY, SMALL BUSINESS, & SCIENCE: Well, I guess the figures now are already outdated, they're four weeks old. Four weeks ago, Victoria wasn't locked down, the second-largest economy in the nation. So, really, unfortunately, the economy and labour market are doing worse than these figures. But even if you were just to take these figures, Patricia, you'd have to say that a million unemployed and 2.5 million Australians under-utilised in the labour market is quite startling. That's why we need to see more than just support for JobKeeper over the next six months, that descending level of support until March. We need to see other ideas, other policies come forward from the federal government to make sure we really do have a plan for recovery.
KARVELAS: So when you say "other ideas" - what is your view of the taper of JobKeeper? It tapers out. Labor's had many things to say on this, but has that situation changed, given half of working Victorians are now on JobKeeper?
O’CONNOR: That's the thing. I think it's important to note that the Treasurer had revised the plan once Victoria had gone into lockdown but probably not sufficiently. We've always said that the support was not fast enough and not broad enough. There's a million workers missing out and that means many, many businesses missing out too if they're employing ineligible employees for JobKeeper.
We think the government, you know, should be looking at all the other options that are available - whether it's dedicated industry policy, whether it's providing other forms of support, because at this point, if there's no further action taken, then we will go off a cliff in March. And of course, as I say, the unemployment numbers today do not reflect the economy of today. They're not taking into account those that are not looking for work. They're not really taking into account the 3.5 million people supported by JobKeeper. And they're not taking into account what's happened in Victoria. Let's hope Victoria recovers quickly and, you know, some promising movement today. But that has to be fully considered. And the government, I don't think, has really taken the Victorian situation into account.
KARVELAS: Almost 115,000 additional jobs were created, which is much better than economists had predicted. Does that indicate a kind of rebound in states other than Victoria?
O’CONNOR: Well, I think that included Victoria, as you know. If you think about the fact that we did open up the economy and, for a very short while, Victoria was back participating in some restricted way. But that would have certainly helped with these figures. And we welcome every job, even if they're part-time, every job, part-time or full-time, that's managed to be revived whether it's through policies or through just getting on top of this major health challenge. That's a fantastic thing. But since then, of course, many, many jobs have stalled and many jobs have been lost. Businesses have gone under in Victoria and may not be resuscitated easily.
I do think there needs to be certain focus on what's happening in Victoria, even if the policies are national, because who knows, another jurisdiction could have similar problems in a few months' time. Just look at New Zealand. People were talking about it being eliminated. It's fantastic that jurisdictions in Australia are doing so well, but you just have to look to New Zealand to realise that even those jurisdictions that have done so well could easily find themselves in some difficulty down the track. That's how pernicious this pandemic is.
KARVELAS: I think that's right. Does that demonstrate to you that you just can't eliminate this virus? You can try, but it's impossible because of what we've seen in New Zealand?
O’CONNOR: Well, it seems very difficult, and I'll leave it to the experts to identify whether it can be eliminated. But clearly it's very, very difficult, if it's possible. And I think even though it's hard for government - whether it's at the federal or state level - to precisely forecast what's going to happen, we do have to have contingencies. We have to have best and worst-case scenarios in order to deal with this issue. To date, there just doesn't seem to be more than JobKeeper, which wasn't an original plan of the government, but we welcomed it when they brought it in. But I do think there needs to be more thoughts around what else we can do for business, small businesses in particular, to get through this. I mean, October seems a long way away for the Treasurer to wait to really explain to businesses, and to workers, what plans they have after March next year.
KARVELAS: You say "other policies" should be pursued outside of JobKeeper and JobSeeker to try and, you know, wrest these rates and deal with this. Do you have a specific proposal about what might work? What does the labour market need?
O’CONNOR: I certainly think that we would revise JobKeeper so it was broader. That's the first thing I think the government could be doing. Already, as the Treasurer has the powers provided by the parliament to broaden the eligibility. That should be something the government looks at. I think they should be also looking at other ways to create employment through other recessions - others that are not as significant as this, potentially. We saw other labour market programs, employment programs and the like working with business and other levels of government and not-for-profits to create forms of employment. That should be examined. It was examined in the 1990s and the '80s and I think it should be something on the table.
Labor wants to work with the government. We do think it's up to them, it's incumbent on them, to come up with some precise plans and we will work constructively with them. But they have to have more ideas than just the tapering off of a wage subsidy for a certain group of businesses in this economy.
KARVELAS: What is Labor's position on extending industrial relations exemptions for businesses that don't qualify for the second round of JobKeeper?
O’CONNOR: Well, if they don't qualify, then is there a need? I mean, I think it made sense that you accompanied some temporary changes, which may have not been perfect for workers, but in the circumstances you sort of said there was a trade-off that there'd be support, a wage subsidy support, for businesses, and there'd be some arrangements for a temporary period that employers were seeking. I think the idea if they're not eligible for the current JobKeeper arrangements, then they are in a situation where they are recovering. So the question as to whether they need those IR changes, I guess, has to be tested.
KARVELAS: OK. But is Labor - it's obviously linked in that legislation, as we know it will be, is Labor likely to wave it through? You're not really going to stand in the way of that, are you?
O’CONNOR: Well, we've been very constructive. We'd rather the government allowed us to make decisions on each significant provision rather than trying to lock us in to something that's not acceptable. We're going to examine the provisions. We don't want workers to be worse off. We know, when it comes to the Liberal Party, they do tend to default to a WorkChoices-like arrangement. That's their dream, something they've been obviously fearful of enacting for about a decade. But here's an opportunity. If that was the direction they took, then of course we'd have problems. But in the end, we'll be working constructively, Patricia, with the government, because these are unprecedented times and we have to work together, and we need to deal with these economic challenges. To that extent, we'll have an open mind to these matters if we are given an opportunity.
KARVELAS: Really briefly, Brendan O'Connor, how's quarantine life? How's your four walls going for you?
O’CONNOR: Well, I wanted to come up to represent my constituents from Melbourne. I guess I was already restricted to some extent in Melbourne, so it's not a great leap to walk around the backyard as opposed to walking the dog. My daughter's online learning here. She can do that from here in Canberra, so she's not been too disappointed. And we've got music and, you know, we've got books. We've even got Netflix. So we'll survive.
O’CONNOR: You will survive. Brendan O'Connor, thanks for coming on the show.
KARVELAS: Thank you